Bringing nuance and depth to conversations around diversity, equity and inclusion is a challenging but essential step in making true progress towards building work cultures that work for all.  Ludo Gabriele has dedicated his work and energy to this task and he is on Finding Brave today to explore some of the lesser-examined but essential aspects of the impact of patriarchal systems and the ways in which masculine norms have shaped leadership norms, and why that is damaging. 

Ludo is currently the Senior Director of MARC Branding (Men Advocating Real Change) at Catalyst, which is a nonprofit organization focused on accelerating progress for women through workplace inclusion. He is also the founder of Woke Daddy, which he created as a means to share thoughts on fatherhood and masculinity.

This conversation with Ludo is jam-packed with powerful ideas and helpful ways to understand and implement them. Ludo unpacks why meaningful progress cannot be achieved without involving the majority group (and in corporations today, that typically means men), as well as how we can begin to create more inclusive cultures that transcend issues such as sexism and discrimination. One of the most powerful points Ludo makes is about the specific barriers that are in place today that prevent men from engaging in the necessary changes so many people (both women and men) wish to see. 

Our guest highlights some of the most important questions that we need to ask and underlines the need for doing deep work to pave the way for real progress. He also explains exactly why better workplaces for women are better workplaces for everyone.

Tune in today for a huge dose of insight and inspiration from an individual deeply familiar with the brave work required to engage in truly successful leadership approaches and build a better and more equitable future for all. 

Key Highlights From This Episode:

  • Ludo spells out what masculine norms are and their impact on organizations. [04:46]
  • The challenges for men to overcome or revise the negative impact of patriarchal systems. [15:15]
  • Exploring the learning programs and conversations that Ludo hosts. [24:13]
  • How sport functions as a means for men to connect in ways that are difficult otherwise. [31:28]
  • The power of empathy; Ludo talks about intentionally developing our capacity. [35:05]
  • Some of the first steps towards change, and the need for introspection. [39:55]
  • Overcoming the fear of being wrong and or being challenged in the current cultural climate. [43:52]
  • The role of courage in advocacy and allyship. [48:39]


For More Information:


MARC (Men Advocating Real Change)

Woke Daddy

Ludo Gabriel on Twitter

Luda Gabriel on LinkedIn

Woke Daddy on Facebook


Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Kathy’s writing and video on “What is Feminism and Why Do So Many Men and Women Still Hate it”
Kathy Forbes article
Kathy’s Video

Gloria Steinem

Anthony Bourdain

The Handmaid’s Tale

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“Masculine norms shape the way that a lot of organizations are still run, a lot of countries are still run, and a lot of institutions are still run. This is the result of socialization.” — @LudoGabriele [0:06:39]

“We are coming from a place where we are blindly reciting a script of masculinity, and for the first time we are questioning it.” — @LudoGabriele [0:10:13]

“The way the workplace is set up doesn’t necessarily work for men either.” — @LudoGabriele [0:13:42]

“We believe it’s men, women, and people of all gender identities working together in partnership to create qualitative culture change. We cannot achieve progress with only one group of people.” — @LudoGabriele [0:27:35]

“We tend to compare people’s experiences instead of honoring each of them individually.” — @LudoGabriele [0:30:23]

“Polarized conversation helps the status quo.” — @LudoGabriele [0:43:29]

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