Thank you for listening to our Finding Brave show, ranked in the Top 100 Apple Career Podcasts!

“There are a lot of gaps to be bridged, and the only way that starts is by getting yourself into a dynamic, personally, where you understand that you’re part of the fabric. Be responsible for how you show up because that’s where it starts.” – Jennifer Edwards  

“When we walk into places where people are fighting so hard, but they’re not showing up correctly in the fight, what’s at stake for them? What are they not sharing here that I don’t know? When you know somebody’s personal story and their lived backgrounds, you cannot deny them their humanity.” – Katie McCleary 

How you show up, including your energy, presence, listening, and language, shapes key outcomes in the situations you find yourself in each day. I’m excited to welcome two special guests to Finding Brave today, who both offer simple but transformative ways to communicate clearly with people of any level or background and navigate any emotion or situation. What they reveal will help you set the stage for more rewarding relationships, and vastly improved business results.

Jennifer Edwards and Katie McCleary are communication coaches and coauthors of the new book, Bridge the Gap: Breakthrough Communication Tools to Transform Work Relationships From Challenging to Collaborative.  Jennifer is a leadership advisor working with Fortune 500 companies and boards, optimizing performance and collaboration. Her clients are global companies from Microsoft to WeWork. She is a partner at Winning Streak Ventures, an early-stage VC fund investing in disruptive technology companies.

Katie is an entrepreneur and storyteller who trains leaders, creatives, and humanitarians to launch big ideas by leveraging their social and cultural capital. She is the founder of 916 Ink, a nonprofit that transforms vulnerable youth into confident authors. She hosts “The Drive” podcast on NPR’s CapRadio with the American Leadership Forum-MV in Sacramento.

Jennifer and Katie will be speaking at the Women Lead Change’s 2022 Advocates & Allies Series on March 24th, 2022, about The Curiosity Cure to Build More Equitable and Collaborative Relationships, and you can learn more at

By implementing the strategies they share in this episode, we can master our biological reactions and connect with others even amid pressure, anxiety and stress, and we can learn to manage the stress, biases, reactions, and judgments to build better relationships. By always leading with curiosity, we can all collaborate more effectively with those around us, as we become better leaders and connectors in our relationships.

Highlights from this Episode: 

  • Why Jennifer and Katie just knew that this was the book that they had to write together [4:26]
  • The critical role that curiosity plays in our relationships, and the 4 different types of curiosity that exists [8:05]
  • What approach you can take with getting curious about people who have different preferences and perspectives than you do [11:02]
  • How showing up “clean and curious” about the other person can reset your biology and shift the encounter [14:17]
  • What looking at our evolution as humans can tell us about systems, beliefs, and why breakdowns in communication are so common [19:47]
  • The ways that our language tools are hindering us and holding us back from feeding our emotional needs as humans [20:41]
  • What role spirituality plays in bridging our gaps in communication [22:48]
  • How our words build our world, and what you can do to bring light and awareness to the people around you [26:57]
  • What is the “drama triangle” and how can it teach us about ourselves and others [32:40]
  • The power of choice, and our ability to always have the opportunity to see something from a different perspective [35:42]
  • How you can start using a “personal board of directors” to help you gain perspective [37:25]
  • A simple hack for changing your energy in order to show up better as a leader [39:49]

For More Information:

Resources Mentioned:


Do you run a coaching business that focuses on supporting women? If so, I’ve got some news!

Right now, we’re opening the enrollment of my coach training program called The Amazing Career Coach Certification, which is a 17-week, hands-on training program that certifies female coaches in my proprietary 16-step career growth model, which is perfect for coaches who want a deeper dive into powerful, proven coaching frameworks, concepts, and skills that will help you become far more effective in working with women.

And through the program, you’ll get access to a powerful Small Business Acceleration program called The Rapid Growth Academy, delivered by my friend and colleague, award-winning business growth expert Matthew Pollard.

Through Matthew’s program, you’ll be taught essential business and sales growth info that will help you grow your business success in the quickest way possible.

In my view, there’s nothing on the market like for coaches because it targets the two critical aspects of success: how you support your clients to thrive, and just as importantly, how to grow your own business to the next level. 

For more information, visit and check out the details.  

And don’t miss the wonderful early bird bonuses which expire March 12th, including $2,000 off the full price!

The program starts March 22nd, and I’d love to work with you. See you there!


NEW!: Kathy’s digital monthly newsletter “Your Path To Career Bliss” – now only $9.99 a month! 

Subscribe to my new monthly newsletter Your Path To Career Bliss for an in-depth exploration each month of key career, leadership and personal growth topics that are critical to understand well and master if you wish to build a happier, more successful and rewarding career or business. These are the topics and issues that are the most sought-after by my readers, clients, course members and thousands of professionals I hear from each year.

March’s issue focuses on How To Grow as a Leader, Manager and Uplifter and shares eye-opening and transformative insights, research and strategies gleaned from my own coaching work with leaders across 6 continents, and from an inspiring array of top national experts I’ve interviewed who share their leadership expertise and knowledge.

If you want to be a better leader and manager, start with this Your Path To Career Bliss March issue, and learn from these essential tips and recommended action steps that will help you grow. 

The first issue of your subscription is FREE and you can cancel at any time. CLICK HERE to learn more and claim your FREE issue today.

* * * * * *

Order Kathy’s book The Most Powerful You today! 

In Australia and New Zealand, click here to order, elsewhere outside North America, click here, and in the UK, click here.

If you enjoy the book, we’d so appreciate your giving the book a positive rating and review on Amazon! And check out Kathy’s digital companion course The Most Powerful You, to help you close the 7 most damaging power gaps in the most effective way possible. 

Submit your audio “Ask Kathy” questions here:

Kathy’s Power Gaps Survey, Support To Build Your LinkedIn Profile To Great Success & Other Free Resources

Kathy’s TEDx Talk, Time To Brave Up & Free Career Path Self-Assessment

Kathy’s Amazing Career Project video training course & 6 Dominant Action Styles Quiz


Other resources mentioned:

The Karpman Drama Triangle

Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families

Neanderthal (PBS)

* * * * * * 

Sponsor Highlight

I’m thrilled that both and Amazon Music are sponsors of Finding Brave! Take advantage of their great special offers and free trials today!

Audible Offer

Amazon Music Offer


“One of the most important things that we talk a lot about is how conscious and present we are to how we show up in any given moment.” [6:03]

“The most important part of curiosity is our perceptual curiosity, and how we perceive things to be based off of our own lived experiences and biology.” [8:28] 

“That’s what is going to change the world, whether it’s in the workplace or in the family. It’s our human suit and our brain telling us to care first, show up for one another, seek to understand, and be curious.” [18:46]

“Curiosity is not about asking questions, but that’s what everybody thinks it is.” [22:28] 

“We are spiritual beings, and the most important thing we must remember as individuals is that we are woven together in a tapestry, and we have an obligation to support each other.” [23:53] 

“All of us want to shift, and all of us have that spark inside of us that wants to show up better than we are. We’re just looking for a door to walk through.” [31:55] 

“You need that coach. You need someone who will hold your feet to the fire and tell you what is up.” [39:02]

“If you are the leader, you are the channel. Your energy translates to everything.” [39:49]


Watch video versions of my interviews on Finding Brave! 

Don’t forget – you can experience each Finding Brave interview episode in both audio and video formats! Check out new and recent episodes on my Youtube channel at And please leave us a comment and a thumbs up if you like the show! 

* * * * * *Please share your positive ratings and reviews!
If you enjoy the show, we’d be so very grateful for a positive rating and review on Apple Podcasts! These great ratings help us reach more and more people who are interested in boosting their careers, businesses, and their leadership, and keep in the Top 100 Apple Career Podcasts in the U.S. and around the world and in the top 1.5% of over 2.7 million podcasts! Thank you!

* * * * * * 



Is your organization committed to supporting the growth and success of women and other underrepresented groups in your workforce? If so, do they offer opportunities for powerful hands-on career growth and leadership training that addresses the real-world challenges that these groups face in the workplace and in their careers that are often different from what men typically face?

I’m so thrilled that recently, a division of the United Nations recently sponsored several memberships to The Most Powerful You course for their staff members and what a powerfully supportive move that is, to bring real-world effective career and leadership training to professionals in their work cultures, to help them thrive and succeed and the highest level possible in their work and projects.

Coaching so many professionals and leaders as I do each year, I see that leadership and career growth training programs today are so often NOT effective because they simply don’t go deep enough to address what really holds us back from thriving, believing in ourselves, recognizing our talents and abilities, communicating effectively, asking for what we need, saying “STOP!” to mistreatment, building a great support community, and making the true impact we long to.

I’d like to make this request of you today:

Please take a look at what I’m teaching in The Most Powerful You course, which is the digital companion course to my book The Most Powerful You: 7 Bravery-Boosting Paths to Career Bliss, now being translated into Chinese, Arabic and Polish, and designated a top leadership book by the Leader to Leader journal and among the TOP 5 books for productivity, innovation, confidence-building, addressing stress and burnout, helping new grads make a “dent in the Universe” and more by The Next Big Idea Club

If you feel that this content — about 7 most damaging power gaps that prevent 98% of women and 90% of men from reaching their highest potential and most thrilling and rewarding goals and how to close those gaps for good — would be helpful for you personally and for the people at your organization, I hope you’ll ask your leaders, supervisors, HR leaders, DEI managers and Learning & Development staff and ERGs to sponsor memberships of this course for you and other staff, so you can all thrive at the highest level in your roles and organizations.

And as always, please feel free to join the course directly

Thank you so much and here’s to becoming The Most Powerful You! 



Kathy’s new book The Most Powerful You: 7 Bravery-Boosting Paths to Career Bliss shares vital information on the 7 most damaging power gaps that 98% of professional women face and how to overcome them. Boost your power and confidence today!


Best Career Coaches 2020